Looking to buy my first WWII 1911 and need some help to find out what I am looking. The pistol is in great shape but I am not sure if is original, arsenal rebuild or a put together. The park has even wear and is in great shape with very visible flame hardening of the front on the slide.

I did not notice any rebuild marks. The trigger looks like it could be du-lite finish? The grips have some dings the hammer looks to have some of the serated portion worn or did not get stamped properly. Even the serial number looks freshly struck.I believe the barrel is a High Standard. The pistol looks great but would like some other opinions before I spend a lot of money. Sears Garage Door Opener Manual 1 2 Hp.

Ithaca pistols were probably the coarsest finished pistols of any 1911A1. The serial number was marked on the slide just above the thumb safety, on the Left side of the trigger( sometimes inside the receiver), and on the receiver under the left grip. UMC also duplicated serial numbers that Colt had used in its production.

What condition would you rate it at if it is original? Let me know what I am looking at or any additional thing to look for. I have an Ithaca and I found the ID pages at coolgunsite.com to be extremely helfpul. Unfortunately the site is offline right now, but you can use the webarchive to pull it up. Go to move the date slider at the top of the screen back until you can get a page with the 'ID Pages' tab to load. I found it just randomly pulling up Fed 5 2005. Once you are in the ID Pages you will find pages for all the major parts.

He does an excellent job showing what each manufacturer used with detailed photos. You should have no job comparing the parts on the pistol you are looking at purchasing to these pages. There is also a very helpful tab called 'Ithaca' that shows the dates for each serial number range along with info on where each shipment went upon order.

Good luck with the purchase. I only have the one Ithaca 1911a1 but, if my pockets were deeper, I think I would get sucked into collecting these awesome pistols. Eta: just looked for your serial number and it looks like it is 1943. Unfortunately, as he states on the site, Ithaca was all over the place with their serial numbers so he doesn't show where pistols were shipped prior to 1944. By the way, that pistol looks like it is in excellent condition.

Report back if you end up buying it. 1944 Ithaca shipped March-April 1944. (Pistols were not shipped in numbered lots consecutively) part of Ithacas second contract. The pistol looks to be correct from what I can see.has a later ribbed mainspring housing, serrated safety, hammer is probably correct.

HS barrel is correct. Common to see the machining marks under the finish on Ithacas. Feed ramp should be bare metal, not parkerized and not polished. The grips are a little beat up for a pistol with a such a good finish, so they likely aren't original. They do appear to be proper Keyes though. It all depends on the asking price. It looks OK to me.

After approximately serial number 1208674 Ithaca started stamping the serial number after the pistol was Parkerized, giving the serial number a different appearance compared to the other markings, as seen on the pistol you are considering. My Ithaca is like that too: If it was refinished the serial number would probably look the same as the other markings. Not talking about Outdoorsman0 but as a general observation, there seem to be many people who have become used to getting free information on the Internet, and that's as much as they are willing to spend (nothing) for information. But sometimes you get what you pay for. The Internet isn't a substitute for good reference material including books that you actually have to buy, for example among others. As for the Internet, the free coolgunsite.com site is a good introduction but if you are serious about buying a M1911 or M1911A1 pistol, in my opinion it is a worthwhile investment to subscribe to Scott Gahimer's site. The $30 annual subscription is a small cost when you are talking about pistols that cost 2-3 thousand dollars (for a good one).

I assume the subscription fee helps pay for the data costs associated with such an image-heavy web site. Subscribers have access to a gallery of excellent photos of hundreds of M1911 and M1911A1 pistols, including for example forty-nine (49) original Ithaca M1911A1's. There are 40+ clear pictures of each pistol, including close-ups of the markings. You can study photos of original pistols and compare them to a pistol you are considering buying. $30 is nothing if it keeps you from making a $2000 mistake.

I just went through a similar exercise (thanks thebearpack!). I'm definitely not an expert, but a few things: the 'P' on the slide should match the one on the frame (looks like yours does), most of the stamps were applied after Parkerizing, so you might see burnishing inside the stamps and serial number, especially in the crossed cannons.

Last thing is, the wear should match, like between the slide and frame, etc. I definitely agree with Milsurp Collector about getting a copy of Meadows's book (US Military Automatic Pistols 1920-1945).

At $38 on Amazon it's a steal. The three volumes were $75 each and they are eventually going to go through the roof like Clawson's did. Milsurp Collector I agree completely with you about reference material. I have a small library of Garand,1903 and carbine books but not one on 1911's. Even with all of the Garand books there are is a lot of information that was not know at the time they were printed or not room to put all of the information in the book. The 'free information' I have found to be very helpful when backed up with my own careful observations. I would also like to thank all of the collectors that spend the time and money examining correct rifles and pistols and then pass along the small details that make collecting fun.

I just went through a similar exercise (thanks thebearpack!). We all have to take our lumps when learning but in the 1911 game mistakes can be very expensive (ask me how I know!) so I like to help when possible. Outdoorsman, this one looks okay to me at first glance but there are a couple things I can't see well enough and the obvious replaced grips are slightly concerning (though there are lots of reasons why they could have been swapped). Are you able to see this gun in person? If so, I can give you a few tips on things to look.

If not, maybe the owner can supply a few more pics? Feel free to PM me for more info.

These are pictures of my personal WWII era Ithaca 45. -This example is what is often referred to in military arms collecting circles as a 'restored' piece. -For those of you who are considering buying an original piece but do not know what to look for here are a few basic pointers. Most modern US military firearms models have been made by multiple manufactures some not even being previously in the firearms business.

The 1911A1 for example was produced by Colt, Remington Rand (a type writer company), Ithaca, and Singer the sewing machine company during WWII. Part of fulfilling any government fire arms contract is that all parts must be interchangeable with any other gun of the same model no mater who produced it. Manufactures are also known to sub contract parts from other companies. To give you an idea Ithaca used a number of Colt made frames that where left in storage after WWI; barrels produced by High Standard and that is just for starters.

After service most firearms are sent to one of several arsenals for inspection, repair, and re-finishing. The guns are then re-assembled often with little or no regard as to who produced the parts going back onto the gun. These guns are often referred to as an arsenal rebuild. They will bear an additional stamp of the arsenal that did the work, mine shows Springfield Armory. -Because of this only a precious few guns of any vintage are still intact in the same condition as when they left the factory and command a premium price. In a nut shell just because the slide says Ithaca does not mean the gun is made up of all Ithaca parts. You have to look for inspector marks and check serial numbers on the frame.

Most Ithaca 45's will bear FJA at an angle on the frame near the trigger and are known to have more tooling marks left behind than other manufactures. -This gun was bought with a frame with mostly Ithaca parts on it however had a slide on it from another company.

A proper Ithaca slide was located and the gun was then re-finished. This is why the gun could be considered 'restored'. Many collectors will consider this more valued than an arsenal rebuild with an unmatched slide and frame but no where near what an all original gun is valued. -Bottom line is do your home work and do not over pay for a gun. There are a number of well written books on military 45's you can consult before plunking down your hard earned money. Any dealer that you will want to do business with will allow a serious buyer to inspect a gun and carefully field strip if needed before plunking down top dollar money for an advertised all original gun.

If you are not serious do not do this. These are serious investment guns and can not afford excess wear on the finish from being repeatedly dissembled. If you are not looking for an investment grade gun and are looking for a shooter like mine do your homework on going prices; be sure you are paying a fair price. -If you notice there are darker areas on this slide near the slide stop notch and in the barrel bushing area. During the war only portions of the slide where heat treated in order to save time and cost.

Free Download Broward County Zip Code List Excel Programs Skip more. When refinished these areas show up darker than the rest of the gun. -My understanding is that Ithaca had a number of problems during early production. They did however come up with an improved manufacturing process for the trigger assembly. The production did not reach expected volumes causing current prices to soar in today's market. Happy Collecting!